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How to Be a Worthy Mormon

October 1, 2008
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4 Comments leave one →
  1. lvberean permalink
    October 1, 2008 7:19 am

    That is sad and very disturbing how Mormonism has polluted the mercy and grace of Christ in turn for the Mormon “merit system”. She was given very bad spiritual advice from a false prophet. If Elaine Dalton could see where Gordon Hinckley and Joseph Smith are right now (Hell – outer darkness) I would like to think she would change her mind. But then again, I think Joseph Smith was given some revelation where he was probably going when he said this:

    “I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol.5, page 517).

    It doesn’t have to be this way. Jesus Christ as revealed in the Bible will atone for your sin debt in full and your perfection will be complete through Him – no merit system to gain favor with God. Christ has already done all the work for you. Come to Christ today. The Jesus of Mormonism is no savior. He is another Jesus who is a fraud (2 Cor 11:4).

  2. katielangston permalink
    October 6, 2008 6:18 am

    “If Elaine Dalton could see where Gordon Hinckley and Joseph Smith are right now (Hell – outer darkness) I would like to think she would change her mind.”

    Wow.

    Jessica, this is why I don’t dialogue with you folks much. I hope and pray this isn’t your perspective. I’m pretty sure the scriptures are clear about reserving judgment and condemnation of this sort to God.

    God bless,
    Katie

  3. lvberean permalink
    October 6, 2008 8:06 pm

    Jessica & Katie,

    Mormons are more than happy to talk to evangelicals or anyone else as long as that evangelical doesn’t know anything about Mormonism or just wants to play “evangelical softball”. I care and love the Mormons enough to tell them the truth and warn them because time is of the essence. Often times Mormons will cite Matthew 7:1 “Judge not, that ye be judged.” when a non-Mormon rebukes their heretical teachings or its leaders. They aren’t the only ones that do this. Many other non-Christian groups know enough about the Bible to be dangerous and quote references such as Matthew 7:1 when someone “calls them out” for their beliefs or the way they are living. Somehow these people think that Christians are just supposed to “sit on their hands” and not say anything. You won’t find that in the Bible.

    In Acts 17 Paul went into the synagogues and then to Mars Hill and confronted, debated and reasoned from the scriptures with the Jews and idol worshippers as to their beliefs. People often talk about the love and soft spirit of Christ, but they fail to see the other part of Christ that verbally “brought down the hammer” on unbelievers in Matthew 23:13-33. Many, many more examples could be referenced.

    Nobody wants to feel uncomfortable or be offended. It’s the American religious culture these days. Everybody is a victim one way or another. It’s a guilt-free conscience today in America. We want to blame someone or something for our problems. Look at Joel Osteen and others. His books are sold at Deseret Books and he isn’t even a Mormon! His sermons are neutral, non-offending and a watered-down message of the gospel. To tell people only one part of the gospel (the love of God and all the benefits of being His child after conversion) and not the other (what will happen if you reject the true Savior of the New Testament – eternity in outer darkness) is not giving people the full counsel of God. I am not going to be responsible for only giving Mormons part of the story. Mormons are rarely told where they are headed if they continue in Mormonism that worshipss a false Christ, false Spirit and false gospel (2 Cor 11:4). Their blood is not going to be on my hands (Ezekial 3:18-19).

    In that same chapter of Matthew 7 let’s look at verse 16: “Ye shall know them by their fruits”. So in verse 1 we are talking about judging, but in verse 16 it says we will know true disciples of Christ by their fruit. Mormons often cite James 2 to support their incorrect belief of works for salvation other than grace alone. Look at verse 18. The key phrase is the first five words: “Yea, a MAN MAY SAY”. In this chapter we have justification in two parts.

    Verse 21 – Abraham was justified by his works AS SEEN BY MEN.

    Verse 23 – Abraham’s faith/belief (what was in his heart) was judged by God and he was declared righteous on that and that alone.

    Verse 24 – Justified before mankind – not belief/faith alone before God.

    Now back to Matthew 7:16. We are to judge others by their outward “fruits”. If I see someone commit a murder, then I judge him to be a murderer. If I hear someone telling a lie, then I judge him to be a liar. If I hear someone teaching false doctrine or claiming to be a true prophet and they are not, then I judge them to be a false prophet. Christians are “fruit inspectors”. The Bible lays out in very clear terms that we are to test what is being told to us to see if it measures up to the Word of God (1 Thes 5:21). Paul was checked by the Bereans in Acts 17:10-11 and it made him happy. Mormons are not happy when we check them, what they say or teach. Jesus repeatedly warns of people that will come that are false prophets and false Christs. The Old Testament in Deut 13:1-5; 18:9-14, 18-22; gives us the testing protocol to check and see if a prophet is true or not.

    I did not condemn or sentence Joseph Smith or Gordon Hinckley to outer darkness. Their “fruits” (teachings and life as viewed and tested by scripture) have been made clear to the world. Joseph Smith preached the King Follet Discourse very shortly before his death and that discourse was the epitomy of blasphemy before God (polytheism, God changes, God is an exalted man, Council of Gods, etc, etc, etc.). He was up to his neck in immorality with plural marriage in polygmany (33 wives) and polyandry (married to 11 women who were married to other people). He was a law breaker and had been sentenced to jail. He was unrepentant of his teachings in Mormonism and fought, literally, to the death while at Carthage jail in which he shot three people killing two of them. He was no martyr. He didn’t cry out to God for forgiveness while standing at the window of Carthage Jail before he fell out. Instead, he shouted out the Masonic cry for help and gave the Masonic symbol of distress (read Mormon historian Richard Bushman’s book “Rough Stone Rolling”, page 550 for validation).

    Joseph Smith’s heretical teachings are taught today in Mormonism. Because of his teachings millions of Mormons have been deceived and have died in the past. UNLESS THEY REPENTED AND RENOUNCED MORMONISM, THEY ALSO ARE IN OUTER DARKNESS. That is where all Mormons are headed if they continue to follow the false Christ and false gospel of Mormonism. That isn’t a guess on my part. It’s a simple conclusion. The Bible is clear about warning people where they are headed if they do not repent or do not stop following a false Christ and false gospel. This is not something hard to understand or read.

    Gordon Hinckley isn’t an exception either. All the way up until his death he remained a “prophet” of the LDS Church and didn’t publicly renounce Mormonism. He wilfully followed a false prophet before him (Joseph Smith) and wilfully spread that gospel throughout the world with his personal emphasis in building temples “on the cheap”. What goes on in these temples is an abomination before God and cannot supported biblically. If there is any doubt about where Hinckley was spiritually before his death, then all one has to do is read his last “talk” at the October 2007 conference. He made it public and official throughout his life. I judge his works, his words and his teachings with the Bible (1 Thes 5:21; Acts 17:10-11) and state that they are false doctrine. I judge Hinckley and Smith by the test for a prophet in Deuteronomy 13 & 18.

    I want you to notice what I didn’t say: Did I mention Thomas Monson or any Mormon alive today? No, I didn’t and won’t. The reason? I believe as long as Mormons are breathing oxygen on this planet and their heart is beating they have a chance. That is why I furiously study and witness to them. BUT IF a Mormon rejects this gospel and CONTINUES TO STAY in Mormonism which is a false gospel, then they ON THEIR OWN AGENCY AND BY DEFAULT will follow their former leaders and church members who didn’t renounce the Mormon heresy and will go to outer darkness where they are as well. It’s not easy for me to say that and I have to just about every Mormon I know. I’ve said it standing in a Mormon ward in the town that I live in because I am so concerned about this issue.

    I find it odd that Mormons would get bent out of shape by someone telling them that they are headed to outer darkness or that deceased Mormons who believed in Mormonism at their death are there. Mormons have no problem giving out condemnation to the world in many areas. They have divided up the Mormon afterlife into three heavens and have already assigned people to it. Non-Mormons (Christians like myself) who live a noble life and have good morals and character is automatically assigned to the terrestrial kingdom. Should I scream “Foul!” because I have been judged by Mormons to this level of heaven? What if I want to be in the celestial? Shall I march down to the temple and throw a tantrum and yell out Matthew 7:1 to them for putting me there BEFORE MY DEATH? What about those other groups that are going to the telestial kingdom or worse yet, what about those people that have been excommunicated from the Mormon Church (apostates, sons of perdition) and are now headed to outer darkness? THIS IS VERY HYPOCIRITICAL ON THE MORMONS PART. Mormons sentence certain people to outer darkness now before their death. Ask any Mormon what they do when they come across an apostate on the street. They turn and go the other way and won’t talk to them. It’s as if they have leprosy. What happened to Matthew 7:1?

    I don’t see the Mormon god (heavenly father) coming into play on this. I didn’t sentence Hinckley or Smith to outer darkness. I stated the obvious based on their beliefs, words and teachings at their death. I hope that they changed their mind in the last few seconds of their life, but there is no OUTWARD EVIDENCE “fruits” or otherwise to the contrary. Stating the obvious based on their fruits (words, teachings, life and their apparent non-renouncing of Mormonism at their death) by default they condemn themselves. I am merely stating the obvious.

  4. katielangston permalink
    October 9, 2008 5:13 am

    Ivberean,

    Because I know the quality of the debate between Mormons and Evangelicals, I can only imagine what kind of vitriol you’ve had to endure as you attempt to witness to Mormons. So we don’t have any bad blood between us, I want you to know where I’m coming from…

    Don’t have a problem with you saying that you think Smith and Hinckley were in error, don’t have a problem with you “judging” that their teachings are wrong, don’t have a problem with you seeking to convince Mormons of the error of our ways, don’t have a problem with any of that.

    In fact, since it is clear you’re a sincere believer, I wouldn’t have it any other way.

    And you’re right–any Mormon (or believing person of any faith, for that matter) who can’t face questions and even criticism about their beliefs is just running scared. Everyone should be open to respectful, reasoned debates and temperate discussion, be willing to listen to another point of view, and even change their mind when they discover they’ve been in error.

    But what really DRIVES ME NUTS is when people (and YES, I know Mormons do this, and YES, it drives me crazy when they do it, too) dare to usurp the role of Christ Himself and pronounce eternal condemnation upon the head of another human being, living or dead. The role of eternal judge is reserved for God Himself, and GOD ALONE will judge. Not me. Not any of my Mormon friends. And not you.

    As for “turning away from apostates,” I know there are *a lot* of misguided Mormons out there who abandon their loved ones once their loved ones abandon the faith. (Believe it or not, I’ve heard of that happening in the Evangelical community, too.)

    Just don’t lump us all in the same group. As an active LDS, I have dozens (yes, literally DOZENS) of “apostate” (whatever that means) Mormon friends.

    I guess all I’m asking is that you cut us a little slack and let God be the one to determine whether or not we’ll all end up withering away for an eternity in hell. Just sayin’.

    Wishing you all my best (seriously, even if I got a little fired up),

    Katie

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